Q+A with Marc Wheeler of A Deeper Heaven
A Deeper Heaven is the indie dream pop project of Marc Wheeler from Salt Lake City, Utah. I came across A Deeper Heaven about a year ago, hooked by its wistful pop but stuck on what it reminded me of1. Marc had, and still has, an affection for The Cure, The Smiths and Depeche Mode as a teenager. This is relatable to many of us, as are his experiences playing in bands and finding good music friends in life. Perhaps less common is that Marc’s relationship with music changed and deepened after losing a child to depression/suicide. A Deeper Heaven has become a creative outlet for Marc as a DIY musician, healing father and compassionate human being. Even if you don’t think too much about lyrics, he hopes listeners will feel a connection or enjoy a temporary escape with his music.
Wendy
What is the theme of the songs on the High EP?
Most of the songs are recalling emotions prior to my daughter Symphonie’s death. The common threads are emotional fragility, foresight of pain, and trying to protect or hold on to someone slipping away. Basically pre-grieving, which is mainly fear, helplessness and longing. But the songs also have a quiet hope for connection and healing despite uncertainty and struggle. The title song “High” is more positive in the end, about struggle but also how music has lifted and healed, to a large degree, enough to move forward. It talks about how music can save us all.
You’ve said that you usually start developing a song with the bass. Why is that and have you discovered other ways of starting that work well for you?
Yes, bass is my first instrument, for a few reasons. I learned guitar first very casually, but learned bass in a very focused way later, still as a teen, while ramping up to play bass in my first proper band. It was mainly Simon Gallup and Andy Rourke that I practiced as a kickstart. Pretty soon, something about bass just resonated with me more than guitar, and when I hear a song, bass is usually what my brain picks out and gets me humming to. My fingers fit it better also.
I think a unique and solid backbone is so key to a song, but it’s not very common to hear that, so when you do, it stands out. I’ve written full songs only on guitar many times (I had a handful of folk songs years ago), but it’s not as fun to me. Sometimes a lead guitar or vocal melody will come to me first, so it does happen, but that’s not as common. “Let Go”, “Don’t Say” and “High” started with a guitar. “Future Fear”, “Foreseer”, “Stay” and “Fire” started with bass. If I’m jamming with a friend, bass is more often what I gravitate to.
You have noted that this project is driven by a therapeutic need to heal. Do listener reactions to A Deeper Heaven factor into your healing process?
I wish I had more feedback or dialogue from fans, but I think anytime I feel heard and seen, by a friend, therapist, or a music fan, it’s definitely healing and validating. I’ve had a few tell me the words touched them, and they have been brought to tears, which means a lot to me. I do long to provide music that fans can connect with, and escape with, as a way to give back what music has been for me. But since it’s harder to hear the lyrics with my songs, the connection might mainly be through the music first, which is similar to the music I’ve benefited from my whole life. In the end, the healing is more in the writing, but the drive to be heard is definitely there and needed.
You’ve collaborated with Casper Iskov on quite a few tracks. How did you begin working with Casper?
End of 2022 Thierry Haliniak (My Raining Stars, Meyverlin) reached out to me to connect and I asked him if he knew any collaborator / producer types that could help finalize some songs. A few months later he sent me Casper’s contact. Very gracious of Thierry being willing to share Casper who he had worked with quite a bit.
What is the story behind your song “Foreseer”?
As for instrumentation, “Foreseer” started with the bass line, trying to make the chord progression slightly more complex than most songs I’ve written. This was the second song I had fully completed the drums on alone, probably the happiest I’ve been if I had to rely on myself for drums. On guitars and bass I was more intentional about the tones, really happy about how those turned out. Casper Iskov added a droning guitar track, and some other guitar icing and beef that I love. Lyrically, this attempts to put words to snapshots of emotions I had when my daughter would go through cycles with her depression, fairly predictable but still difficult to prevent. It’s a helpless and fearful situation, repeated like a nightmare you can’t shake. The outro touches on a cautious hope, mixed with an empathy for her wanting to end her pain.
What was the approach for the Hypno Remix of “Foreseer”?
I found myself again having fun mixing post production, and wanted to pull out more of the droning guitar Casper added, and his other guitar extras. I also wanted to strip it down a bit to highlight the bass and drums more since I love how well they worked out together. I feel like the ending is better than the original since it’s more of a somber feel, less driving drums. Fits the lyrics better.
If you could remix any Cure song, which would it be and what stamp would you leave on it?
Such a great question, I think I’d like to cover ten of their songs but a good start might be “2 Late”. I would love to add more jangly guitar during most of the song, play with my own lead guitars, and probably reduce the keys. Bass would stay the same, Simon is my hero.
Is there a song from another genre or time period that you would like to “deep heaven-ify”
People probably don’t know I’ve been involved in two covers, Flyying Colours “WavyGravy” that I produced with permission, and Curve “Arms Out” that Casper produced. I recently got permission from Pete Fij to cover Adorable, so that’s very exciting. Top picks would be:
Ride, “Vapour Trail” or “OX4”
Adorable, “Breathless” or “Have You Seen the Light”
Kitchens of Distinction, “When in Heaven” or “Drive That Fast”
The Autumns, “Juniper Hill” or “Sunblush”
What’s your opinion on AI and the benefits and threats it presents to songwriters and musicians?
I think it’s a threat for sure, to real artists. But at the end of the day, I think most listeners want real people and stories behind songs, so I hope that demand will push Spotify and others to categorize songs as AI-generated or not. I think it will affect more formulaic genres first (pop, country, etc) and I don’t think those fans care as much. It feels like we are entering the Wild West. Artists may be pushed even further into the background, it’s just another uphill resistance on top of so many already. When it comes to visual art and writing, there may be more of a threat since the artist behind the visual isn’t usually highlighted as much. I hope all things will be categorized at least, so people can choose. I can’t hate AI as it has helped me a lot in areas like health and research, but it does make me nervous for the creative side of life.
What influence does your locale (Utah) have on your songwriting?
Very little I would say, other than the winters that are five months of boredom, especially as a teen. Salt Lake is not diverse and still small compared to LA or Portland etc. It’s just barely big enough that I was able to find a few niche style bands to play in over the years, but it’s tough to find band mates unless you play metal or country. It’s not big enough to have many fans of smaller genres show up to a concert. I at least had access to radio, CD stores, XFM internet radio, a special cassette brought from UK, and a few key friends that really shaped my taste, leaning heavily toward Europe/UK music and alt rock. On second thought, maybe in smaller cities the weirdo music fans can find each other easier? For example, there were only 5 to 10 in my schools that dressed in all black or band t-shirts, so we did find each other easier.
Do you have plans for A Deeper Heaven to release more music this year or next?
I’m starting on a full new album with Casper very soon. It will be a year or so, I anticipate. So hopefully by end of 2026. In the meantime I may work on a few remixes or covers in between album work, I don’t have the patience to wait so long for releasing something.
Anything else you’d like to highlight to listeners?
I'm excited to have collaborated with The Julies for a remix of “Future Fear” on the High EP. It turned out so wonderfully, and I'm very grateful they reached out. I'm also excited about a recent podcast I was interviewed on, called Surprise Cast (episode 154). It's pretty juicy but Dubya Frederick was a gentleman and professional.
You can follow A Deeper Heaven on Instagram and get the High EP as a limited edition CD from Shore Dive Records.
The Ocean Blue, 1989.